Mark Zonder doesn’t need any special introduction. He’s a living legend with his own, unique drum style and an illustrious career both with Warlord and Fates Warning (…and not only, of course)! A-Z finds Zonder reuniting with Ray Alder and the final result is absolutely astonishing. So, we get to learn all the details regarding the band’s debut album while at the same time we take a trip down to memory lane when Mark was doing his first steps into the magical world in music.
Interview: Sakis Nikas
Rockpages.gr: First of all, let me tell you that it’s been a while since we last talked so it’s great to have you back and talk for another album besides anything Warlord-related.
Mark Zonder: Thank you. Even though I wish it was a Warlord album.
Rockpages.gr: Me too, Mark. It’s a brand new album, a brand new band, a new beginning for you. I’ve been following your career since the 80s, and I must say that it was quite surprising, you know, because the album, it’s melodic, it’s straight forward, it’s definitely more commercial. You know what I mean? I guess that was the target right from the beginning, right?
Mark Zonder: Absolutely. You know, you have to ask yourself, why would I do a Fates Warning record? You know, why would I do a Warlord record? You know, it’s kind of like, okay, I’ve done that and I’ve done it for a lot of years. It wasn’t like just one time…you know, one Fates Warning record or one Warlord record. This is the kind of music that I’ve always loved. If you look at what I listen to, this is the style that I listen to big hooks, choruses, interesting playing. And I’ve tried to do this before, you know… my band Slavior, with Gregg (Analla) and I and Wayne Finley and Phillip…I always thought, you know, it’s all about the chorus. It’s all about the hook…Warlord was great with that. Bill wrote amazing hooks and choruses. Fates Warning was a little bit more progressive, wasn’t so concentrated on the big hook and big, catchy arena rock kind of songs. But, you know, it’s just something that I always wanted to do. And I’ve been trying and trying. People just have to understand, I mean, to get these kind of things going without paying people a lot of money, it’s very difficult because musicians these days, especially higher caliber ones, you know, they want to be paid. And I understand that. But at the same time, to me, it’s all about the music. I never put myself in a position where I had to take, you know, just a gig that I didn’t want to do because I needed to make money. So, we purposely crafted that kind of music…you know, big hooks. Big choruses. And there it is.
Rockpages.gr: I got to tell you that throughout the years and all the interviews that we had done together you always said that you wanted the commercial success, but somehow that didn’t happen. Did it bother you as an artist?
Mark Zonder: Well, I have a funny quote. And obviously you have followed my career and people know who I am and I have a very distinct sound. I’ve never read yet, you know… “Hey, Mark Zonder needs to go practice more”! But my kind of my thing is, you know, critical acclaim is kind of overrated. Don’t get me wrong, that’s great. You know, that’s really great. But at the end of the day, does it sustain me? Does it sustain my family? No, it doesn’t. You know, if you can find a musician out there that says: “oh, it’s not about the money. No, it’s all just about the art”…They either have a big trust fund or they don’t mind eating top ramen noodles for the rest of their lives. I know I’ve been through that. I did that for five or six years with Warlord… (eating) top ramen noodles. I know what it’s all about and it’s great and it’s cool, but not as you get older. So yes…you, also, have to remember I played a lot of small gigs and that’s all cute and that’s fun.
I remember playing those gigs in Greece with Warlord and me and Bill sitting backstage while the opening band was on, and all we heard was the crowd shouting “Warlord…Warlord…Warlord”. And I looked at him and I said, This is what it must be like playing in Iron Maiden every night, where no matter what happens, they love you, you know? And who wouldn’t want that now? Who would not want that? I mean, to me, the big festivals, I love that stuff. I am not the guy who says, Oh, it has to be an intimate little club. I have no problem saying that since I was very young, you know, I wanted to be a rock star, plain and simple. I work my ass off. I developed my own sound. I didn’t get involved in drugs and alcohol and all that kind of stuff, you know, I have a recording studio that I’ve had for about 25 years and just tried to do it my way.
Rockpages.gr: But now, as we all know, the state of the industry or the music industry has completely changed since the 80s or even the 90s. Now, what does success mean to you? I mean, if you had released that record back in the 80s, maybe it would be huge. Maybe you would fill arenas. I don’t know nowadays. What does success mean to you?
Mark Zonder: What success means to me? You are right, though. If it was in the 80s, we could have maybe been out with Bon Jovi or something. But you know, let’s face it, I think this band would have fit in a lot more in that 80s L.A. thing. With Warlord we didn’t fit into that at all. Basically, success is being able to do what I want to do…that’s success! Even today I’m working on a new project and it’s exciting and it’s another thing that I want to do. And, and in doing it the way I want to do it, success probably at this point in the game is more about, you know, being 64 years old, continuing to do it. The success of that record, the A-Z record, is really simple. You know, even if it sold five copies, it was my idea from the beginning. You know, I did everything my way…we wrote together with the guys and they recorded their parts. But everything else basically it was me…you know, from Hugh Syme to sequencing the record to the videos to getting the publishing stuff set up, just everything involved.
It was the way I wanted to do it. And I think you’ve seen the way it came out. It came out amazing. So to me, success is the fact that I took it from the very beginning. I made that first phone call. I had the idea, you know, we didn’t sit around as five guys in the band and say, okay, guys, what kind of music do you want to do? I knew exactly what I wanted to do from the beginning, and if you didn’t want to do that, that was fine. But and you need to move on. I had a very distinct vision. Like I said, I didn’t want to do another Fates Warning record. I didn’t want to do some kind of proggy stuff. Like, why everybody everybody’s going to go: “Oh, it sounds like Fates Warning. Oh, Mark’s trying to be like Fates Warning”. After all, that’s never been my kind of style. I’ve always liked that commercial, you know, Journey, Kansas, Whitesnake, Bad Company, Survivor…all those bands with just a great song, you know that people remember.
Rockpages.gr: Yeah, I know what you mean. But some people will definitely link you with Fates Warning because you will also have Ray singing those songs, you know. So it’s inevitable actually…
Mark Zonder: Well, yes. And I think when people say, oh, there’s a reminiscence of Fates Warning, I think it’s just because of the drums. And the voice. Yes. I don’t think it’s the song. I think the songwriting is totally different.
Rockpages.gr: You’re right.
Mark Zonder: You’re a leader. And even if you go and look at Jim’s project that he just did. It’s also commercial stuff.
Rockpages.gr: Kings of Mercia.
Mark Zonder: Yeah, totally different. You know, A-Z has a very unique sound because you’re bringing five guys in that are coming from completely different places. That’s where the sound comes from. It’s not one (person). It’s not my vision telling everybody. Okay, play this way. You know, everybody was free to do what they wanted.
Rockpages.gr: Yeah. You know, I’m holding my copy that I bought from the Iocal store in Athens…You know, they still exist, Mark…anyway, I am looking at it right now and I absolutely love it. I love what Hugh Syme did with this artwork. It kinda reminded me of the whole Hipgnosis covers that were so thought provoking in the 70s and 80s, you know what I mean?
Mark Zonder: You say Hipgnosis. I just say it kind of reminds me of Rush, you know, it reminds me because obviously it’s Hugh Syme. But that was another thing in the beginning that I absolutely insisted on is that this should come out like an 80s or 90s record…a full package, you know…I didn’t want to say: go to our website and check out our pictures and our artwork. I wanted old school. This was like, put your money where your mouth was, which I did. And we went for it, you know, and the measure of success, like you said, at the end of the day, I don’t care if it sells five copies…this album to me it’s amazing. And I think that cover will stand the test of time.
Rockpages.gr: Yeah, exactly. And, you are right. You said that the most important thing is the songwriting…the songs. You know, it doesn’t matter if the musicians are top notch but the again you have Philip (Bynoe)! My God, what a great bass player he is. You must feel great as a drummer having Philip right beside you in the rhythm section, right?
Mark Zonder: Well, let’s put it this way. He’s a better person and a better friend than a bass player, if that makes sense. We’ve been really tight for years and years and years going back to 2007 with Slavior. And, you know, he did the Warlord record and the tour and he is the ultimate professional. I wish everybody that I’ve ever worked with was as professional as he is. He’s the best. If I’m playing the drums, he’s playing the bass. If it’s me, it’s Philip. That’s all there is to it.
Rockpages.gr: Ray Alder wasn’t actually the first guy that you had in mind right from the beginning, right?
Mark Zonder: No, not at all. He was like the last guy that I had in mind…I was looking to do something original. I wasn’t looking to recreate Fates Warning or anything like that. And I was just really looking for a someone to just come in and knock me out. So we sent the music out. I sent it to maybe 10 or 15 different guys, some big name guys, you know…but also guys that you’ve never heard of them. And it was really rough. They weren’t getting it. They weren’t getting it at all. So I just decided now I haven’t talked to Ray in a long time. I don’t know what Fates Warning is doing. It’s none of my business. I’ve been gone for a long time. So I just called Ray and we talked and I sent him the first song out. When I got it back, I knew that it was something really special.
Rockpages.gr: Yeah, it is. It is something fresh. And I got to say, I got to congratulate you because the first tracks that you released from the record “Trial By Fire”, “The Machine Gunner” and “The Far Side of the Horizon” are absolutely spot on. You get exactly the idea of what this record is all about. So the question is: “Is A-Z a regular band and do you have plans for follow-up records”?
Mark Zonder: Actually, since November when the record was turned in, I sent those guys probably a couple hundred different drum ideas that I’ve recorded. You know, everybody’s got their own things that they’re doing right now. And, you know, we’re looking at the touring possibilities and it’s just so hard. I mean, when you have bands like Anthrax that are big bands canceling because they can’t afford to do it. How are we going to afford to do it?
Rockpages.gr: That was actually one of my questions…given the fact that some big bands are cancelling; is it something that concerns you?
Mark Zonder: Absolutely. We’re still looking into all the possibilities. You never know what could happen. But at the same time, we’re very realistic. We’re not going to go and do like a really bad tour. We can’t afford to lose money because that can kill a band. You know, I think you’re better off not touring, doing a second record and doing it really well, you know, a really good second record and then start looking at touring possibilities again because right now it’s so tough. I mean, why would you go do that? If we could get a support act on a major band, come out and play 45 minutes, it would be great. But the real truth of the matter is that those bands want you to pay them. You know, you need to buy on and we’re not in the position to do that. It’s just plain and simple. We’re just not in that position. Taking that into account, we’re writing, we’re putting together new material, which I always think is important. I thought we should do better. I pushed on it right after the record was done. I was like, okay, guys, you know, let’s start putting this together. So if there’s going to be another delay from COVID, at least when we get done with this record, the other one will be ready, you know? We’ll be moving forward. It’s just a matter of figuring out what’s next. We’re planning on basically putting out, you know, seven, eight, nine videos just to keep the music out there. Everybody told me this time around that it’s all about content and video stuff. And you got to keep putting stuff out. So we are and we’ve done a lot of these interviews with the guys in the band talking and stuff like that, and we’re doing everything we possibly can with the whole social media thing.
When I started to dream about this, I was hoping that a song like “Trial by Fire” would catch on somewhere. You know, whether it’s a TV show, whether it’s a beer commercial…whatever. I was looking at, you know, we looked at it like 11 singles. Okay, all you need is one to catch. And so that’s exactly why that record was designed. There’s no long songs, there’s no jams, there’s no filler. You know, it’s just 11 great songs. And, you know, we’re very proud of that. I’ll stand by that record as it is the best thing that I’ve ever done without a doubt. Absolutely!
Rockpages.gr: The best thing…? Even compared to Warlord?
Mark Zonder: For this for the simple fact that that I did it all by myself. Warlord was Bill. No question about it. I was along for the ride on that one but A-Z was mine from the beginning. I’m very proud of that. I’m very proud that I gave 110%. And it shows I mean, I don’t see bad reviews. Maybe some people will say how the album cover is ugly and the zebra’s got bad teeth. But, you know, that’s all the criticism that I hear….nothing negative regarding the song or the sound.
Rockpages.gr: The production is excellent.
Mark Zonder: Thank you! I don’t think it could have turned out any better. That’s how I feel. You know, other records I’ve done in the past, like “Parallels” was a great record…working with Terry Brown. That was great. Also “Deliver Us” with Warlord was just so special because that’s the first time that you heard it from a cassette recording in a rehearsal room to a vinyl record. So I have those memories too. But I’m just saying, from the point of view of the maturity of the playing, this is definitely the best sound quality, best drum sound that I’ve ever captured on a record. As you get older and you grow I’m glad it’s still kind of going in that upward way instead of not…
Rockpages.gr: οne of my favorite things about your playing and that’s exactly why you are one of my favorite drummers out there is the fact that you were a pioneer of the electronic drum patterns. You know what I mean? You used heavily the electronic dance patterns and this is your sound actually. Do you feel kind of underrated in this capacity with the whole electronic drum realm?
Mark Zonder: Well, to answer your question in one word: absolutely. But what I find interesting is I’ve heard people think that it’s a drum machine when I’m playing. For instance, they think that “Far Side of the Horizon”, That whole intro, is a drum machine, really, you know? But no, I play the electronics integrated within the kit. I’ve been doing it since “Perfect Symmetry” and the interesting thing is that there’s not enough attention paid. You know, Neal (Peart) did it, but he did it with turning around and just playing an electronic drum set and turning back around. He didn’t play it within the context of the kit. You know, I have a couple of pads, I have a big pad here. I have my sounds. I just use it as alternative sound source as I was always a big fan of experimenting and a lot of those samples you hear I made them in the studio and then I screwed around with them and added this and added that. So no, it’s it’s just being creative. I’ve always just strive to be different and not just be the same old, same old.
Rockpages.gr: I’m sure you know that you are one of the very, very few drummers who has a distinctive sound. You have your own sound. You’re incorporating music within the music; you have separate music within music, you know what I mean? So it’s fantastic.
Mark Zonder: Yeah. I’ve always strive for that. Kind of like when I was younger, I didn’t do what everybody else was doing. I was trying to go in different directions. And I always, like you said, I always wanted that…like and I’m not comparing it to this, but when you hear Eddie Van Halen, all you need is probably two notes and you know who it is.
Rockpages.gr: Speaking of drums, not many people know that Aynsley Dunbar is your biggest influence. So is it safe to say that you preferred the first era of Journey from a strictly musician’s point of view?
Mark Zonder: Well, I grew up in that same area where they were in San Francisco, in the Bay Area, and we used to go see him all the time in really small clubs. So yeah, those first four records, even that first one with Steve Perry (ed.note: “Infinity”) with Gregg Rolie singing…that was just crazy stuff! It just really resonated with me, and it just really caught my ear. I would sit around for hours with a turntable in my drums trying to figure out those parts. That’s where I learned all the hi-hat stuff…that was all Dunbar, you know…and it amazes me to see to this day that there are some very popular big name drummers that aren’t using their left foot with the hi-hat at all, you know? And it’s just something that I was taught when I was younger but eventually Dunbar really brought it home. And just to see him play, you know, up close, that was another guy who was playing songs within songs. It just wasn’t beating and bashing. And he had that jazz thing going on. He had the rock thing and he had different influences that made his style. Journey was not only “Don’t Stop Believin’” and “Lovin’, Touchin’, Squeezin”…you don’t know Neil Schon. Go back and listen to what he was doing. I mean, it’s intense.
Rockpages.gr: Maybe it’s sacrilegious what I’m going to say is that I can’t distinguish Aynsley Dunbar when he plays with Journey or even with Whitesnake in the “1987” record. This isn’t the case with you, at all. I recognize instantly your style and playing.
Mark Zonder: I understand what you’re saying. He was just a huge influence. I mean, he’s played in so many different bands of so many different styles. Maybe the fact that he doesn’t have a signature sound is what’s enabled him to play in all those different bands. Yeah, he kind of adapts but I know what you’re saying There are some drummers out there, like Neil, obviously you hear a Rush tune, you can hear it a mile away. But we’ve never had the chance to really hear him play in a commercial hard rock band. You know, we’ve never really heard him play in a funk band. He’s so associated with the Rush style.
Rockpages.gr: You grew up in San Jose, but you were born in Detroit, although you left, when you were five years old or something.
Mark Zonder: Yeah.
Rockpages.gr: Do you have any childhood memories from Detroit?
Mark Zonder: No, not really. I didn’t have my first drum kit until I was seven. We moved from Detroit to Los Angeles and then from Los Angeles to San Jose. I had my first drum lessons here in Los Angeles.
Rockpages.gr: So I guess that whole Detroit sound of the late 60s and the early 70s wasn’t a big influence on you…
Mark Zonder: Not really. Actually, you know what an influence was on me… just my parents that used to play Motown. So I heard that a lot while I was growing up. I heard movie soundtracks like West Side Story…all those different kinds of music. My parents weren’t into rock and roll. I kind of picked that up later. I remember when they got the first Monkeys record. The Beatles were always kind of around just because, you know, they were the Beatles! That’s why that Motown thing is really big with me and the groove…and I always thought that I was the guy who really put that groove in there, in Fates Warning. That’s part of the reason I contacted Ray, because I knew he sang to kind of where the drums were because we talked about that, you know, in earlier years how he was into this kind of music, you know, singer/songwriter stuff…Steve Perry, Sam Cooke, whatever.
Rockpages.gr: Mark, you mentioned in the beginning of this interview that you’re already working on another project. Would you like to say something about it or is it a…best kept secret?
Mark Zonder: It’s a secret. It’s nothing like, oh, my God, Mark’s playing with Deep Purple. It’s not like that. It’s just kind of a different direction with guys that I really, really, really love. And, you know, that’s part of it, too, that people don’t realize when you’re younger, you know, you take the gigs that will help your career. Are you going to get along with everybody in the band? Probably not. You know, everybody’s coming from a different place. But when you get older, you’d worked with enough people, then you got to go, okay, I want to do something. I’m going to use him and him. I just started working on it this morning and laying down some drums. The creative process is the most exciting thing to me. It’s like having babies all the time, like a newborn baby. So, it’s just starting. But, you know, I’m just not sitting around. I do a lot of work for other people that I get hired for, whether it’s a band or a singer, songwriter or guy who’s trying to put stuff together and they need a drummer. So, I do that in my studio, too.
Rockpages.gr: Mark, thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Let me tell you that I missed talking to you. It’s been quite a while. Everybody still talks about those Warlord gigs in Greece.
Mark Zonder: Absolutely. I have to say that those Warlord gigs that we played were definitely the highlight of my career. Yeah, without a doubt. It was, you know, crazy. It was the best thing. And I have to thank every single person that was there…it was like a full circle for both me and Bill.
