Steve Smith welcomes us into his living room -via Zoom, that is-, with the imposing Diamond Award for “Escape” dominating the background. After gazing at it for a few seconds, we begin the interview, which turns into an in-depth confession by the great drummer. You will see for yourselves as you read on…needless to say it was great honor talking once again with this legendary musician.
Interview: Sakis Nikas
Rockpages.gr: Steve, what a great background that is…is it for the diamond sales of “Escape”?
Steve Smith: Yeah, 10 million copies sold in the States alone.
Rockpages.gr: Oh, man…what a great sight. Thank you for taking the time to do this. Much appreciated. It’s been quite a while since we last did an interview together. Actually, it was in October 2004 when you were here in Greece for the very first time. Best birthday ever and it was a dream come true for me to have you here in Athens.
Steve Smith: Thank you. Yeah, we had fun. I remember that was a very nice club and school. That was a good experience to play there. The bass player owned the place, right?
Rockpages.gr: Yes. Exactly. George Fakanas is his name.
Steve Smith: He was very good friends with Anthony Jackson. I know they did some recording together too.
Rockpages.gr: Steve, I gotta tell you that this will be an interview focused mostly on your rock background because the truth is that all I know about jazz is through your music, actually…so I hope it’s fine by you.
Steve Smith: Of course!
Rockpages.gr: But I will start by the latest album that you released with Vital Information called “New Perspective”. I loved it…
Steve Smith: That’s great to hear. Did you buy it online?
Rockpages.gr: Actually, I bought it from my local record store here in Athens. You can find quite a few Vital Information CDs in that record store, really.
Steve Smith: Well, that’s interesting because I put this out with no distributor. I just sell it through my website. So I don’t know how they got it.
Rockpages.gr: Obviously, it’s an import because it was also an expensive purchase.
Steve Smith: I see. That’s amazing.
Rockpages.gr: It was quite surprising because I know that you rarely look back on your past recordings. So, when I learned that you’re gonna release some different interpretations of songs by Journey, Vital Information and Steps Ahead…well, let’s say I didn’t see that coming! It’s like an exception to the rule.
Steve Smith: (laughs) It is. So the idea of “New Perspective”, the title means that this is a new perspective on some music that I’ve recorded in the past. It includes three Journey songs, one song from Steps Ahead and then some older Vital Information songs. And so we came up with very new and very radical, arrangements of these songs like “Don’t Stop Believin’”. You wouldn’t know it’s that song, really. Sometimes we play that for an audience, and people don’t even know what the song is, but maybe a little bit. They get it at the end, because that’s when we play the main theme, the main hook at the very end. But, we did such a good job of coming up with new arrangements. They are very fresh and very unique sounding. Lovely.
Rockpages.gr: The very first word that comes to mind is radical.
Steve Smith: You used the right word: Radical! We shot some really wonderful videos for those Journey songs that you can find on my website (www.vitalinformation.com). There are a lot of videos and there’s some of those Journey songs you can see us recording in the studio, you know…“Don’t Stop Believin’”, “Open Arms”. We also did a version of “Who’s Crying Now?”. That’s very, very unique. Another one is from Steps Ahead that came out really very nice.
Rockpages.gr: What’s the feedback so far?
Steve Smith: People loved it. Yeah, they really loved it. So all positive, all very positive.
Rockpages.gr: You know, of course there are many rock fans, including myself, that listen to a little bit of jazz music because you play on those records. As an artist yourself, is it rewarding, is it fulfilling to hear that people from different musical backgrounds turn to jazz music?
Steve Smith: Yes, I I like to hear that. And I’ve heard that many times that people, that are rock fans may have never listened to jazz, but then because I have Vital Information, they do start to listen to jazz. And some people really fall in love with jazz music, jazz fusion, of course, there’s so many categories, just like there’s so many categories of rock. There are so many categories of jazz. And then, they start listening and then they buy more albums and they go to see live shows and the one thing I’ll say about jazz music, for people that have only really listened to rock and have not listened to much jazz, is if they go to see a very good jazz group live. That’s the big difference from listening on an album…to be in a room with great musicians, jazz musicians that are performing…then you can really feel the energy and how spontaneous it is; how the musicians can be virtuosos. And that’s a very different experience than listening to an album when, especially if you’re not really oriented to listening to jazz and you listen to an album. It can be a little distant, feel like it’s distant. But when you’re in the room like you came to see us at that club, that’s very different. To be in the room and to hear the music and feel the music while you’re in the room that that can transform a person.
Rockpages.gr: I agree with you because that concert that we were talking about in Athens, that was my first jazz experience, live jazz experience. And it, it was great, let me tell you that. I didn’t expect it.
Steve Smith: That’s exactly what I’m talking about and that’s the beauty of the whole thing really.
Rockpages.gr: If you had to pick a couple of records that can be, you know, more accessible to rock fans from the Vital Information catalogue which albums would those be?
Steve Smith: Well, the very first album could be a good choice. It came out in 1983 and it’s a little more rock than any of the other albums with two guitar players…Dean Brown and Mike Stern, a bass player Tim Landers and a sax player, Dave Wilczewski. Journey had just finished recording “Frontiers” in 1982 and it hadn’t come out yet. Then in January 1983, I went into the studio and made this first Vital Information record. Right after that, I did the whole Frontiers tour, you know, world tour. And when the tour was over, I did the first Vital Information tour in the USA sometime around October, November 1983. So even though it was jazz, it was more rock, jazz rock, fusion and very intense high energy. So, getting back to your question that first album and the second album called “Orion” is a little more rock. Then it got a little more like funk, R&B, jazz, funky in the middle years. Also, the album “Show ‘Em Where You Live” has a little bit of a rock feeling. And it was right around that time that we came to Greece. It’s with Frank Gambale, Baron Browne and Tom Coster. So that one is pretty powerful. I would say those are the key ones. Other ones are a little more jazz, like straight ahead jazz, a little more R&B, funk, jazz.
Rockpages.gr: Let’s go back to 1983. I want to know about your frame of mind at that time. You came up right after, you know, “Escape”, which was a phenomenal success. You were recording “Frontiers” and then you made a brand new and different start with Vital Information. From the rock spectrum to a more jazz-fusion direction. Was it intriguing for you, as a drummer, to go from one genre to another?
Steve Smith: It was very important to me to play the music that I love playing. When I was growing up, I was considering myself a jazz musician and thinking my career would be in jazz. And I’m talking about when I was a teenager in high school. I was more interested in jazz and I gotta tell you that the rock music that I was interested in and I loved was more like jazz, blues-rock…Hendrix, Cream, Led Zeppelin, which if looked at from today’s perspective is much closer to jazz than modern rock. That’s because you have players that are really blues players and long improvisation is a part of the music of the 60s and 70s. Cream stretched out, Led Zeppelin used to stretch out in their concerts. So when I listened to rock, that was the kind of music I liked to listen to. And of course all the jazz bands and the big-band kinda music. I went to music college, Berklee College of Music, after graduating high school in 1972, I really got into the music of John Coltrane and Miles Davis and then what was happening at the moment in the early 70s was the, the original fusion musicians, the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Billy Cobham, Tony Williams, Alan Holdworth, Herbie Hancock, Headhunters, Weather Report, all of these bands I, I saw all of them. That was the music of my generation, and it became part of me and in a way, with all of that, I had the ability to go anywhere musically, you know, from playing in a jazz trio to playing hard rock. You know, I could go in any direction and then as a young musician, I was looking for work, as young musicians do. So anytime anybody offered me a gig, I was interested. I wasn’t saying, no, I don’t want to do it because I don’t like that music. I like every kind of music. So I would take any kind of gig, you know, whatever. Didn’t matter, And I played everything from weddings to pop, you know, top 40 pop gigs, country western gigs, you know, big band. I played in, you know, polkas, everything you can imagine.
Rockpages.gr: Right around that time, came the offer from Journey, right?
Steve Smith: Right! I was touring with different jazz groups, the guys in Journey heard me play and asked me to join the band. So to me, it was interesting because musically, it was interesting and at the time that I started playing with Journey, the band was not very successful. It was just starting, just coming up. And so it wasn’t like, I’m going to join this band and make a lot of money. I was going to join this band and learn how to play this kind of music and it was interesting. I had not worked with a lead singer before. I’d only worked with instrumentalists. I started developing my drumming to play in that kind of rock style of Journey, which we were inventing it, really. We were creating it in the moment. So it’s very interesting, very creative. I was learning about the music business. I was learning how to make albums and work in the studio.
So when you asked how it was to switch gears to jazz in a way it wasn’t that hard. It was all very related, you know, very much related. By 1983 I really wanted to play some different music. I also really wanted to play with jazz musicians and spend time with jazz musicians. So one of the things I can say is the psychology of rock musicians, and the psychology of jazz musicians is quite different.
I grew up as a jazz musician. So when I’m playing, I can improvise using lots of different rhythms and understand the form of the song and create in the form of the song as a player of harmony, whether it’s guitar or piano. I want to understand how chords work, how the scales work on the chords so I can improvise inside of this, this music we call jazz and then we connect, and then we play in such a way where we want to experience some kind of ecstasy. That goes beyond the everyday experience. You want to improvise and connect to this point where you feel connected with the other musicians, connected with the audience, and then have some kind of almost out of body experience. It’s part of why we improvise and play for long periods of time. It’s a different frame of mind compared to most rock musicians. They’re thinking…let me play the right part for the song. Let’s write some songs that will become popular, that will get on the radio, especially in that time. We wanted the songs on the radio. We want to be successful. You know, these are different thoughts than jazz musicians. Jazz musicians want to work, but we’re not thinking about getting songs on the radio. We’re not thinking about just playing good enough. You want to transcend that. So it was not just the fact that I wanted to play the music. I wanted to play with those musicians. I wanted to spend time with the musicians that I related to the most.
As long as I have a balance, that’s good. I’ve worked with a lot of rock musicians over the years, especially making albums, being a session player. But my preference, especially going on tour and having long periods of time with people, spending time with people is the jazz musicians because I relate more because that’s my background and how my psychology works. So that’s the challenge of the jazz musician, moving into the rock world, which a lot of jazz musicians do, of course, you know, from Steve Gadd to Vinnie Colaiuta and Greg Bissonette and, you know, lots of drummers that they live in both worlds. But when you’re in the world with the rock musician, you have to relate to them. But they don’t have the same kind of ability to relate to us. I know, because it’s something beyond their ability. Anyway, that’s my best explanation I can give to you.
Rockpages.gr: Speaking of Journey, was there any specific member of the band back in the day, when you joined the band, that you connected the most musically or even on a personal basis?
Steve Smith: Yeah, it was Neal Schon and Steve Perry. But also with Gregg Rollie and Ross Valory. Those were all good people and great musicians. And I have to say, when I was in high school I bought all the Santana albums that came out and the first album, you know, with Greg Rollie and Carlos and the second album “Abraxas” and then Neil was in the band there…the funny thing is that Neil and I are the same age. So, you know, here I am in high school and he’s with Santana, you know, when he’s 16 and 17 years old. So I definitely knew that music and heard those musicians. When I got to meet them, it was exciting and interesting. Musically, I connected with Neil Schon on the jamming aspect of things. Because, you know, he likes to jam. And then on tour, that element came out in our live shows. And then with Steve Perry, the connection is more about the feel of the groove, like the rhythm and blues feeling, rhythm and blues rock. And that’s something that Steve Perry, I wouldn’t call him a rock singer as much as, like an R&B singer from blues or gospel singer in a rock setting. So in a way, that’s the uniqueness of Journey. All these elements coming together and yet we were still writing music that translated to the rock audience.
Rockpages.gr: You know, there is a motto that says that the artist should listen, should take notice to the fans…what the fans say. Do you believe that, especially considering that the fans miss both you and Ross?
Steve Smith: Of course! But some things don’t work out necessarily as the people or the fans expect. That’s music business.
Rockpages.gr: How about Steve Perry? Did you expect that he would release a studio album back in 2018?
Steve Smith: No. Not really. I am out of touch with what he’s doing musically. We talk on the phone every so often, but I’m not so sure about what he’s doing musically, so I don’t know. I was not paying attention.
Rockpages.gr: Would you ever consider doing something again with Steve Perry?
Steve Smith: No (laughs)! I like the relationship that we have now. It is very nice. Of course, we have a long history together but we are adults and in some ways it’s better not to work together again. It’s just good to keep it as it is. And it’s very nice as it is. And I don’t think either of us have the desire to do more work together. Because we have made our contribution already and it’s best to leave it alone.
Rockpages.gr: I know what you mean…totally. On a personal level, do you miss those guys?
Steve Smith: You know it’s interesting. We are talking about a relationship that had its lifespan. It was a very intense lifespan and experience. It was definitely a creative period from the time I was in the band, 1978 until 1985 when I left the band.
Rockpages.gr: We shouldn’t forget the great reunion album “Trial By Fire” in 1996.
Steve Smith: I don’t forget it. And I agree with you. That’s one of the best Journey albums. But that period in the late 70s an early 80s is when we had the fire and drive…we were searching and creating and we were working so much. When you have five people with a shared goal, and that goal is to come up with songs, that will make a great album, songs that will get played on the radio, songs that will be fun to play live, and the audience will like live. Those were all our goals and we achieved all those goals and we made money and you know, we did well. Once a group of people achieves that and changes the lives of millions of people around the world with those songs, that’s something almost unbelievable. But the thing is that I didn’t feel the need to continue with the band and I think back then it was time for my personal goals. Take for instance The Beatles. When they felt they couldn’t work together anymore as a unit, they chose to break up and follow their individual paths. When they reach that ending, it was everything that they could do as that unit of four people. Then it was time to do individual expression and develop as individuals, because after a while, I think that’s important to move away from that beginning. It’s like members of a family. You don’t want to stay living with your parents and brothers and sisters your whole life. There comes a time to get out there and do your own thing. So that’s how it feels to me.
Rockpages.gr: You have done so many things in your professional life throughout the years. If you had to pick just one highlight, which one would that be?
Steve Smith: That’s an impossible question to answer.
Rockpages.gr: Let’s give it a try…
Steve Smith: (laughs) I will say one big highlight was getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That I did not expect it to be. I never had thought about being in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Never occurred to me. And when it happened, I wasn’t so sure it was going to be a great experience. But in fact, it was. It really was. And there was something about being in the room and being present in this. It was a big, 15,000-seat, arena. And there were all of these great musicians there. When I went backstage, the guys from Yes were there, Jon Anderson, Bill Bruford, Alan White and it was good to see them. Plus Joan Baez was there! And, you know, it was so exciting. And I met Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson because they were there to induct YES into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. That was a pretty exciting experience. Of course, Steve Perry…I had not seen him since 2005 when Journey got a star on Hollywood Boulevard. So it’d been, you know, almost 20 years since I’d seen him. So then, you know, we had a moment to connect. That was a very exciting night and a great experience. so that it’s a highlight.
Rockpages.gr: Needless to say that we were expecting the classic line-up to perform on that night but it didn’t happen.
Steve Smith: Yes, I know. We would have liked that too. And we did try to get Steve Perry to sing with us but he didn’t want to. Another highlight for sure is when I left Journey in 1985 under not great circumstances. And then less than one year later, I got a call from Michael Brecker, one of my heroes, one of the greatest sax players of all time, he called me and asked me to join Steps Ahead! So that was a big thrill in a way, going from one of the top acts in the rock world to the top of the jazz world within one year…that was pretty transformative for me. It really was what I wanted to do. And to get that kind of acknowledgment from the jazz world and then to play with those musicians. As I said, that was a huge thrill and a big highlight of my career.
